9/18/08
Leonard Cohen’s “Anthem”

Mr. Cohen needs to find a different person to sing this song. Like Jennifer Warrens of famous blue raincoat fame.

Is it not that in our imperfection that god still loves us.
Everyday is new we have forgiveness
Ring the bells that still ring.

Page 28 quote, “the problem with you is your Mennonite moralisum. You need to go out and commit the worst sin that you can think of. You have to either learn to live with yourself or life by the grace of god.”

I’m actually tempted to try this out. Because honestly I feel like I need some sort of spiritual kick in the pant to get me to do something… some sort of awakinging I guess. I’ve been told I shouldn’t, but I am jealous of those who haave conversion stories where they were in a real bad place- living a life full of sin and then they found god and all is swell. They went out and committed the worst sins available and now can only live by the grace of god. I have been told however, by Glenn Kaiser of the Resurrection Band, that I don’t want to be where he has been. Yet I don’t feel like I have ever reallyfelt changed by God. Some people say you can’t know good with out evil, darkness with out knowing light.

Reimer says that social salvation will be a long slow boring event like my personal salvation has been for me. Social salvation is constant.
Yasch Siemans
- Live in marriage
- Good person
o Can we be saved by a community?

Individual salvation
- Instant
- Happens once
- Liberating disruption in your life, from a problematic life to a better one
- Brunk
o Fire and brimstone
o Take personal/individual responsibility now, and become born again.

Creation - creation
Fall - separation
At/one/ment - unity

Atonement theory, satisfaction (legalistic) required
- debt of human sin
- substitutioin
- God subbs in for human






I. Atonement, making things whole and right.
a. Anselm – one is saved by faith and grace
i. 11th cent.
1. Satisfaction
a. Justice exists as part of the fabric of the universe and says that not even god can give up on justice.
b. Justice must be satisfied, not God.
c. Atonement theory, satisfaction (legalistic) required
d. debt of human sin.
e. Substitution
f. God subs in for human

b. Abelard – one is saved by law and works
i. 12th cent.
1. Moral influence
a. based on love
b. Jesus life was noth what was necessary, it was jesus’s life that was necessary
c. Death was inedible due to jesus being commited to living a perfect life. He will go against authorities and he will be killed by them.

c. Aulen
i. 20th cent
1. Christus Victor
a. There is a war between powers
i. God (love, justice, equality) --- principalities & powers (state gov. corperation / things like racisum and sexisum
b. Voluntary sacrificial death of jesus
i. Chronicles of Narnia
c. Possible the model of the early church.
d. J Denny weaver likes this model but that it needs to work it’s self out non-violently.


Mark 10:45
Not god that needs to be payed the debt but the debt. Devel has claim on god for sinners or something like that.

Philippians 2:5-11
a. on one hand Christ is below everything
b. jesus dies in worst possible way
c. exhaulted by god
a. “therefore he was exaulted by god”. Verse 9



Therefore my beloved just as you’ve obeyed in my presence in my oresence but also in my absence…

Philippians were commanded to act out their own salvation. Law vs. Grace.
-->How are we (justified/santification/saved)?

What to do over the next to weeks to set up a time to come meet with Trevor bechtal to figure out what the large project.


Last word

I. THE CHURCH
a. The build ings
b. Home
i. coffee donuts
c. church of rock
i. couldnet get in
1. wasn’t dressed aporiately
d. three things that people can tough were present at churches in Jerusalem
i. is this church more holy? Then mine?